Interview: Le Big Zero toy with distractions and fate

Michael Pasuit gets easily distracted. Well, at least for getting in his own way and procrastinating. “I’m not one to seek out the new thing all that often, but I totally get it,” he says. “And I’d be a total liar if I said I don’t go down completely meaningless rabbit holes on my phone.”

With Le Big Zero‘s song “Toy,” the band — also currently comprised of Ben Ross, Katie Cooney, and Lukas Hirsch — mulls over distractions in all their forms. “I want a toy to make me sleep through anything,” sings Pasuit and Cooney, their voices coarse and stringy. “I want a toy to validate me, validate me, validate me.”

For her part, Cooney finds herself “not out looking for shiny things either. I’m a pretty focused person even though I have ADHD. That’s a contradiction, yes,” she tells B-Sides & Badlands. “I have to work on it all day long. I could say my business is a bit of a distraction, because it literally takes up a lot of my time — but I guess that’s not technically a distraction. I really work on being a present person and have for a while now.”

“I think I’m pretty good at not getting distracted by instant gratifications or momentary bliss type stuff. Been there, done that, and it’s never really gotten me to being fulfilled within myself,” she continues. “I can certainly get glued to my phone as much as the next person, but it’s hard not to when the world is imploding, or we have incompetent clowns running the circus. What I do know is my own personal validation is worth way more than any external validation.”

The song, an essential cut from the band’s new EP At Arm’s Length, ends with a simple refrain: “I don’t want to share.” It speaks to a broader conversation about social media and oversharing, a delicate tightrope act Pasuit has no problem walking. “Our music is the most interesting thing about me, so I don’t really feel that my day-to-day life is going to turn any heads on social media,” he says. “I have an abstract sense of humor, so if I see something that hits me funny, I’ll share. But for the most part, it’s just vegetarian cooking and dog walking when I’m not holding a guitar. Nothing profound for Brooklyn.”

As far as creating the jangly “Toy,” it was quite a straightforward, no-fuss process, even though the band “often seeks complexity,” says Pasuit. The song began with just “three chords. Let’s build on this and see how we can layer things. Melody lines. Bass flourishes. Katie came up with a great riff that fit over the top.”

Cooney chimes in, “I don’t really remember how that riff came into play, but I could probably say it was when we were working it out in the studio. I think I most likely thought it wanted a bit of a hook in there somewhere.”

Below, Cooney and Pasuit discuss online validation, their two-guitar approach, and fate.

Do you find yourselves constantly seeking validation online or are you fairly detached from that part of modern existence?

Pasuit: Not particularly online, but I think most people who share their art are seeking validation in at least some respect. The notion predates the internet; it’s just that social media is such a vital part of putting yourself out there now. There’s a middle ground between “constant” and “detached” that’s healthy–just a matter if you can find it.

Cooney: Everything Michael said! I agree with all of that. I don’t think I’m online necessarily seeking validation but much more using it for the networking aspect of it. I scroll through, but I really try to stay present in life, in general. I focus a little more on the internal validation versus the external validation.

EP opener “Watch It Burn” seems to be about climate change and natural disasters, with you singing about toxic rain and the rising oceans. What prompted this one?

Cooney: Well, I think just watching everything that’s happening all around us, every day, on a global scale. It’s really enough to make you sing about it. It’s stunning what progressive pace things are moving at, yet we still have the same culprits doing the major damage and the recurring theme of business as usual. If you’re not infuriated, you aren’t paying attention or likely, you are part of the problem.

Musically, did it always have this blood-coursing energy?

Cooney: [laughs] blood-coursing. That’s amazing. Yes. It did. We came up with the music for that, and the lyrics came after. As you described it, a blood-coursing song needs some lyrics of blood-coursing desperation. It will never feel normal or ok to me that we are all collectively being held hostage and dealing with consequences everywhere regularly now because of some people’s endless need to make money or their severe lack of respect for the earth we live on.

How exactly did the two-guitar approach shift your songwriting?

Pasuit: Really changed everything honestly. For the previous two albums, my strategy was to make my part as weighty as possible–whether it was being super note-y or playing as full a chord I could (use those pinkies). With Katie as a guitarist, I could pare back, which let the songs breathe easier. And I think the whole vibe breathes easier, too.

Cooney: I just kind of had to figure out how to adjust into the dynamic. I fully understood that this was a big shift for Michael. And he definitely needs to saturate everywhere in a song. I’m not necessarily like that. But coming into Le Big Zero, I just had to figure out where to fit in. We trade off on this EP. One of us isn’t necessarily lead or rhythm. I think mainly my approach is filling out the soundscape and really thinking along the lines of catchiness and hooks whether it’s guitar playing or melody-wise.

In what ways did Rocky Gallo take this project to new heights?

Pasuit: Rocky was more involved in an engineer capacity than as a producer, but we love his vibe. He’s a quick study, straightforward, and seemed to very quickly understand what we were going for and what would help in certain places. He handed me a Telecaster for one take and said, “dDo the same thing but on this guitar.” And that’s the guitar tone we ended up using for the middle of “Heavy Handed.”

Also, “Spin Cycle” wasn’t exactly finished when we got into the studio that day. We knew that wasn’t the best way to record a song, but he mixed a bit on the spot, had some ideas, and captured the mood perfectly, which for that song is everything.

Cooney: He was great. Totally rad guy. We apparently lived in the same building years back in Greenpoint. He was on the floor above me in this commercial loft building. What are the odds?! But yeah, It was all smooth sailing. He’s a super pro. We did some swapping in and out of pedals for a specific sound that would be ideal on a couple of songs. 5 stars.

“Pay no mind / Fate is blind” rings the refrain in “Pay No Mind.” What lies at the core of this lyric?

Pasuit: As a band who doesn’t strictly abide to verse-chorus structure, we were looking for something that might be the exact opposite. Using a refrain for a change. The core of the lyric is that we don’t get to know why things happen sometimes. Some people can have everything going for them and never get anywhere. Others seem to effortlessly rise above the fray with what you perceive as having little substance. And it’s not something to get mad at. It’s just the way things happen sometimes.

Do you believe in fate or destiny?

Cooney: Omg this is a loaded question [laughs] I definitely do. I think every single person who comes into our life has a significant role to play with us. A reason, a season, or a lifetime. I am a tarot reader and huge into astrology. I absolutely believe that we all have an orchestrated dance to dance per our natal chart. I believe in synchronicities and fate, whether good or bad. Karmic relationships are everywhere in people’s lives. I think fate is blind in the sense that so many people can’t see past themselves and get out of their own way a lot of time. People stay stuck. We can all be so consumed in everything these days, but the opportunities can just pass you by.

Pasuit: Custom made for Katie! Her answer is way more interesting and introspective than anything I have on the topic. I’m more we’re-just-ping-pong-balls-bouncing-around.

You’ve said that you’ve learned way more than you expected with your acquaintances. What relationships have changed in your life? What did you learn?

Pasuit: Beyond the whole red vs. blue thing, I think the pandemic stripped people down so that their core beliefs were on display. What you truly value, but more importantly what you are willing to turn a blind eye towards. I lost a couple of friends, which is never fun. But I learned to value things more at their root level. Cut out the fluff. Hold closer to those things that truly matter.

Cooney: For me, I think it goes way deeper than acquaintances. I’m not a surface-level person. I truly value the people in my life, and if there’s no reciprocity, then most likely we are no longer in each other’s lives. Of course, I have acquaintances, but as Michael said, cutting out the fluff. I definitely removed myself from some people’s lives because it was more draining and depleting. I also learned schadenfreude is real and saw some people’s true colors at a time where everything was so divisive, whether it was politics, in collective values, or people in my own personal life. It’s really eye-opening and stunning how terrible some people walking around on this planet really are. Being a shitty person is not my thing, and I can’t relate. Bottom line for me is there’s a difference between a mistake and a pattern or a relentless forcefulness of opinions, actions, and narrow mindedness. I don’t allow inauthentic or fake people around my energy. I’m all set.

What is your personal takeaway from this record?

Pasuit: The reception so far has been amazing. It took two different studio sessions to achieve, and a bit more careful of a writing process, but we’re very proud of it. The path doesn’t always need to be the same if the output is something that’s worthwhile.

Cooney: There’s a little something of everything in there. The feedback and reviews have been incredibly complementary, and I think that speaks for itself.

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